Developing Global Citizens

Promoting inclusive education in Ukraine

December 18, 2019 Santa Fe College Season 1 Episode 5
Developing Global Citizens
Promoting inclusive education in Ukraine
Show Notes Transcript

The American Disabilities Act (ADA) was passed in the United States in 1990, creating a culture shift for many Americans. Ukraine has no such legislation in place, and life for Ukrainians with disabilities can be very limited. In this episode of Developing Global Citizens, your host Vilma Fuentes speaks with Santa Fe College AVP Dug Jones, alumna Natalia Prior and current bachelor's program student Sith Waters, all of whom traveled to the Ukraine to explore accessibility and inclusive education. 

Speaker 1:

Hello, welcome to Santa Fe college. My name is[inaudible] and this is our podcast on developing global citizens. We are joined today by Seth waters, uh, one of our baccalaureate students and information systems technology. Natalia preor, a recent graduate who is now attending the university of West Florida and Doug Jones, assistant vice president for economic development. We are here today to talk about, um, our experiences on a recent grant funded project that Santa Fe college received during the 2018 2019 academic year. It's a project funded by the United States embassy and Kim Ukraine titled promoting inclusive education through youth leadership. It was a rather unique program that allowed our students, faculty and administrators to interact with their peers at, uh, in, uh, colleges and universities in a city called Poltava in, uh, central Ukraine. So promoting inclusive education through youth leadership. Sith Nathalia. Please tell me about the project and its activities. When and how did you become involved in it? What did you do?

Speaker 2:

Um, so I guess as far as becoming involved in the program, uh, it started out as just a reach out and a potential that this might happen. And so it was first, um, exploring the original ideas. I remember on the project, I remember you going through the process of writing the grant and everything before we even stepped foot in, uh, Ukraine and before we sat down and had our first real meeting about what we're going to be doing as far as the program itself, it's youth leadership, uh, inclusive education. Um, the majority of what we were trying to do is we were actually developing, um, a program essentially to take and teach to high school students, uh, in the full toddler region in Ukraine.

Speaker 3:

This project was amazing in it's just unique and amazing in its own way. Um, however it was even more special to me just because I'm from Ukraine and I seen different problems that has Ukraine has, um, especially in inclusive education that just, we didn't had it. It's quite new in Ukraine. So it was, um, amazing for me opportunity to get enrolled in this project.

Speaker 1:

So the project officially started in September of 2018 um, and most of the grant activities started took place in the fall and spring. Um, Doug, what about you? Can you please describe for us what you did as part of this project? How did you become involved in it?

Speaker 4:

Sure. Uh, I was really excited to be invited to be a part of the, of the project because I had previously been in Ukraine on a separate project and had developed a, a great appreciation for the Ukrainian people and the culture and had, had the opportunity to see a little bit firsthand some of the challenges that, that Natalia mentioned in terms of inclusive education. So both in terms

Speaker 1:

of my experience with, with uh, Ukraine and my personal experience as a person with a disability and, and my impressions of an inclusive education in the United States and how far behind they were in Ukraine. It was a wonderful opportunity to be a part of something very meaningful. So for those in the audience who may not know you and know anything about your particular story, tell us a little bit more about that. You just said, you know, you have a disability. So what in particular do you have and how do you think that connected to this project? Well, yeah, I'm a, I'm a paraplegic. I had a spinal cord injury,

Speaker 4:

uh, in high school, uh, before 1990 when the ADA arrived in the United States. So I've experienced, uh, the, uh, cultures, um, the long process it takes, uh, two to, for a culture to change and embrace persons with disabilities at a higher level. Um, I've been through that here in the United States and they're on the very front end of that in Ukraine. So

Speaker 1:

we're here to talk about the project review crane, but I think it's important to contextualize certainly from your personal experience and then we'll explore that if all of us here. But, um, so ADA, I see the Americans with disabilities act. So you acquired your disability before that was passed. How, how did that piece of federal legislation change, um, your way of kind of interacting with the world around your or in us society and how you just mentioned that you saw cultural shifts. So talk to us about that. The culture, what did the law mandate and then what, what cultural shift did you observe? Okay. Well, in, in the most general terms,

Speaker 4:

you know, the, uh, ADA was, you know, was legislation intended to require, you know, that, that, um, organizations, especially those that are governmentally funded, um, uh, pay attention to the special needs of persons with disabilities so that they can be more fairly and, and more equally included in, in society, whether that was an education or, or other activities. So that process, because you, you know, uh, changing a culture is, um, is a very long process. So, you know, it's T over the 40, nearly well 30 years now that a ADA has existed. Uh, you, you know, you see a transition here in the United States and, and the, uh, situation in Ukraine for me was reminiscent of, of really in the 70s in the United States in terms of, of their just not being necessarily any malicious intent, but just an absence of comprehension of, of the value to society, uh, that, that is, is gained when, when you make a society more inclusive for, for all people, whether it's disability or,

Speaker 1:

or, or other separating types of dynamics. Natalia, you mentioned that you're originally from Ukraine, so, um, how many years did you live in Ukraine and what brought you to the United States?

Speaker 3:

So I live in Ukraine for 16 years. I was born and raised there. I was adopted by American family. Therefore I moved here. One of them that I agree with the dog is, um, that Ukraine is far behind on inclusive education. A, I want to say this, the first time I interacted with a person, a person with disabilities, it was actually a dog. I didn't see them just because in Ukraine they have special schools for them. Uh, after school, like school, like, um, middle school, high school, there is no colleges, Bay build for people with disabilities. Therefore, most of the time after school, uh, they graduate high school, they stay at home. Uh, people don't see them. A lot of times they would just hide. It's not, um, it's not beautiful, uh, in a way that I don't like it because, um, everybody's unique and everybody has their own differences. Um, I think they should embrace them. Um, therefore when I sat, Ugh, I had, I was a little bit uncomfortable at first because I don't know how to act, but, uh, he show off his skills on this little veal chair. I was surprised by this. Um, so it was not a surprise to me to see that in Ukraine that you didn't have the X disabilities as in United States, uh, wherever. And one of the schools that we went, they said they have a boy in a wheelchair. We didn't see him. Whoever they said all of his classes are all getting on the first floor. That's actually shocked me because in my life I haven't seen in Ukraine person in the wheelchair before.

Speaker 1:

No. Um, it may be good to say a little bit something about, so why Santa Fe and why Ukraine? Um, so let me see if I can maybe broach that topic. Um, Santa Fe college has been privileged to have the opportunity to administer, um, two additional grants on behalf of the us department of state that have allowed our administrators, faculty, students to interact with higher education officials from that country. Um, and, and one of the things that became clear after the first delegation came is that Ukraine is not inclusive. Certainly their educational system is not. And I do distinctly remember receiving a representative from Ukraine's ministry of education and science back in the spring of 2016 who first met Doug and said, wow, people like that in my country. They often don't leave the house. We don't see them. And then they saw Doug who their first impression was you drive a car and then you start, uh, they started seeing how active you are in so many things. Uh, and again, Doug, for some people who don't know you, what, what, what, uh, from your perspective, what are some of the things that you think seem to have impressed, either Ukrainians or other foreign delegations that we've hosted here? Yeah, I think the,

Speaker 4:

a realization that much of things that create obstacles for persons with disabilities, or at least physical disabilities are on, are unnecessary. You know, a, a, a wall, a 10 foot wall with a, with a door in it, you know, can have a 36 inch door just as easily as a 30 inch door, um, curbs and steps and, you know, so, uh, as more and more persons with disabilities, uh, involve themselves in society and, and hopefully like the, the young man that, that Natalia mentioned, that the one school we attended, um, it draws people's attention to those types of things. And, and, um, again, it's a long process because physical barriers, uh, you know, there's, uh, and especially in Ukraine, you know, the, the, you know, they've existed so much longer than the United States in terms of having, uh, a culture that has buildings and, and churches. And in institutions that there's so many old, old buildings, uh, that, that, you know, were built honestly at a time when people who, who acquire disabilities probably didn't survive whatever it was that caused the disability. Right. Um, so in some ways it's a, it's a greater challenge in places like that because there's, I don't want to say more to be undone, but there's more to be retrofitted and there's more ballast to the, to the existing culture.

Speaker 1:

But, um, in Ukraine as here in the United States, we have improvements in medicine, you know, people that suffer what used to be, you know, um, fatal injuries are now able to survive, are able to have prosthetics, uh, or some other kind of assisted living things that allow them to become active members of society. So one would hope that then society is ready to receive them. Um, let me turn for a second to SIF. So Seth, um, as you know, this project wasn't simply about physical, um, disabilities and how to create the educational system in a society that's more inclusive. We also explored the idea of other types of disabilities. Um, can you tell us about that? What was your recollection? So what, what were some of the other types of disabilities that we discussed as part of this program?

Speaker 2:

Right. So a few of the disabilities that we also touched on, uh, were things like, um, ADHD, um, uh, people who are in on the autism spectrum, uh, people with learning disabilities, like dyslexia, things like that. All of the disabilities that aren't as visible that a lot of people forget about. And a lot of times the first thing that's, that's done in as far as the culture shift and uh, caring for people with disabilities are the physical ones, the ones that everybody can see, cause those are the easiest to deal with. So a lot of what I talked about where people with, um, learning disabilities, uh, because my younger brother actually is on the autism spectrum. And so it was just a bit more personal for me.

Speaker 1:

And so let's go back to the activities. So I began by asking you to please describe the activity. So the project started in September of 2018. What did we do in S or what did you do in September or October? Uh, as we started off the, the 2018, 20, 19 academic year,

Speaker 3:

we had, um, Skype sessions each, each Skype session, um, was occur every week. And it, we had a theme for each week and a was different things like, um, besides inclusive education, we also, uh, talk, uh, how to prevent bullying and different aspects and, uh, of bullying. Um, so we would discuss every week we would try to find something in common but also indifference and how to make something better. Uh, not saying that, uh, the United States is the perfect but more is definitely far developed than Ukraine. And try to share our experience here with Ukraine and Ukraine, Ukrainian students,[inaudible] university students would share their experience, their, uh, views on life and different things that we discussed. Uh, it was throughout the year also. We went to, um, Ukraine where we visited high schools. So if I could, I'm sorry to interrupt. So, uh, so before, let's talk a little

Speaker 1:

but about what we did before we got to the high school. So we had these weekly Skype sessions. And Seth, you were also, you attended every single one of those sessions. What was your impression of them? What, what did you hear from other Santa Fe students who were in the room and participating in these events? What did you hear like before or after them?

Speaker 2:

Uh, so I want to say in the beginning the Skype sessions, uh, were a little shaky cause everyone was nervous just seeing people on the other side of the world and try and get used to communicating through the Skype sessions. And how did you communicate what language? Mostly in English. Um, we did actually have, because of Natasha on our side, we had someone to translate Ukrainian back to us. But for the most part our conversations were in English. And I want to say the majority of their students don't speak English fully. Uh, while most of them understand some English. So it's inexperience trying to communicate. As far as the actual topics that we discussed, we discuss it honestly a little bit of everything from um, people with disabilities. Um, we discuss, uh, different ways of learning. We also discuss a little bit of politics because a lot of education ends up dealing with politics. Also, the, um, perception from the Santa Fe students is that one, they were just surprised to see something like that happening on their campus. Um, and to most of them really enjoyed experience. This is, um, for some of them this was their first chance talking to somebody that's outside the country from a completely different perspective. So it was, um, really unique. I know we had a couple repeat people, so every two, a lot of the sessions just to come back just to see the students again. Um, do, so

Speaker 1:

before we get to what happened in Ukraine, uh, so this project focused on inclusive education and of course youth leadership. Uh, what did you know about inclusive education before you got involved in this? It did it help you learn more about what it is and what we do in the U S

Speaker 2:

so if it's, um, on the topic of inclusive education in the United States, I, I actually had never heard it called inclusive education. Uh, just because it's the way I got used to school is everybody was integrated, uh, people with disabilities, uh, whether physical or psychological had different resources available to them already. And I wasn't aware that it was called inclusive education. So when I first heard about it, I was like, what is this? What am I getting into? Um,

Speaker 3:

well I saw I was inclusive in all of it since I came back from Ukraine. So to me it was inclusive and uh, however, I did not know that exact definition until you explain more deeply a special, like a mission or of Santa Fe or something. We had one of upside, whereas describes, um, inclusive education basically.

Speaker 1:

So our equal opportunity statement is fundamentally our statement and our belief in supportive, inclusive education. And in Ukraine, this is a particularly hot topic because legislation is now being introduced, uh, to mandate inclusive education throughout their educational system. And the concept is completely new and the practices are new. So I think our, our interactions with the Ukrainians were really valuable. Um, so youth leadership, did this help you develop your youth leadership and or that of some of your peers here at Santa Fe? And if so, how?

Speaker 3:

Oh, most definitely. Uh, there have been two grand. We had, uh, we taught, um, to the students, different things, how to accept everybody. Uh, so it was a great experience to be a teacher in front of the students of your age, similar to your age. Therefore, when we came back, I felt a lot more confident in myself that I knows that I can explain and probably change somebody's life.

Speaker 2:

Um, forgive me. Can you repeat the question?

Speaker 1:

Oh, a youth leadership. Talk about that. How do you think this project helped American students and Ukrainian students develop their youth leadership skills?

Speaker 2:

So I think that'd be an interesting impact to see. Uh, I know for sure that it was developed. Uh, and I want to talk a little bit about the first school that we went to in Ukraine, uh, after we did.

Speaker 1:

So this is a, I'm sorry, sorry, I had interrupted you before. So this is, so in November of 2018, you together with three other

Speaker 4:

Santa Fe students were able to represent our institution and visit, uh, Poltava. And you visited how many high schools?

Speaker 2:

Six. It was six. It was two a day. For three days. And was it just the Americans or were you there? So it, um, it was the group of us from Santa Fe as well as our direct partners with, uh, Poltava national technical Institute. And so they were there interpreting for us and also, uh, assisted in developing the material that we were teaching about. Um, but briefly on the first school we went to as far as the impact of leadership, uh, we went to these schools and we discussed, um, uh, inclusive education, uh, youth leadership, people with disabilities. And almost immediately after the students were already, uh, we'll say up in arms trying to modify their school so that everybody was able to accommodate. They were measuring the width of doors, trying to figure out what it would take to take somebody like Doug with a wheelchair up the stairs and everything. And so,

Speaker 4:

um, so Doug in the high school from, how did you feel entering some of these Ukrainian high schools? Um, what, what did you sense from the students and the administrators and faculty there? Uh, an interesting combination of, of caution are what do you know, what shall we do? Um, and those, the ASM, you know, I think they had the benefit of knowing that, that I was warned on what to expect at the high schools. Um, and, and I think we had a great effort on their part to make it as accessible as, as could be. Um, but I think it also was eye opening for them in terms of, uh, not just, uh, getting to a second floor classroom and the, the process of, of getting my chair upstairs. But even is there a restroom in the entire facility that could be used by a person that's a wheelchair user? So, so I, I always enjoy those opportunities even still in the United States because I think it just makes people aware on a very real level of something that that may be, they generally know. Yeah, it might be difficult for someone in a chair, but then when they see this specific implications makes it a little more real.

Speaker 3:

I want to add something on leadership. Um, as a, you guys said they were really enthusiastic and let's show us that we, uh, changed their life. It's the not saying like, yes, it is hard. It's cost money, but they tried to sign, find like easy, simple changes that can be changed for now for a little bit of time before they can raise some money. So I think that was a great example of leadership, um, of the students,

Speaker 4:

you know, and I think that dynamic even in the United States is interesting now because, uh, you know, legislation requires, uh, you know, people are limited from making even some modifications to, to structures, um, if they don't make it fully accessible and, and that perhaps you're in the United States where we have more resources, but I think maybe the approach there is going to be not letting perfection be the enemy of progress. I think they are working towards doing what they can do, even if it doesn't meet what we would call in the United States, uh, legal standards for accessibility. And to me that's a great first step in their culture. And if I could, so you started off Doug explaining that in the United States you were able to see, um, the cultural changes that ADA Americans with disabilities act, uh, helped stimulate. I mean, is it enough to just pass a law mandating change or do you need the cultural shift and, and if so, what kind of cultural shift do you need? Yeah, well, I mean, you know, clearly, um, you know, the, the bottom line is the cultural change and the activities that we do and the educational things we do, you know, at the beginning points for, for changing culture. And you know, I think it was Peter Drucker that said, uh, you know, culture eats strategy for breakfast. And you know, then that doesn't mean you don't have a strategy. But it does mean that you realize that all of these are components that add to the process of changing a cultural expectation. Great. Thank you. So Natalia and Seth, do do you think that the activities that we undertook either through our Skype sessions or alive and left in the visits in November to the high schools on the colleges and universities there, do you think they helped, uh, begin to change the culture in, among youth in Ukraine and maybe create the next, uh, future leaders of the country? And if so, I mean, I'm feel free to say no, it was a flop. It's okay.

Speaker 3:

Um, as a person who grew up there, I don't remember seeing, uh, lots of smiles with the teeth showing. I know it sounds crazy. Um, and Ukraine people tend to smile just regular smile without teeth. And then Ivan back and we were meeting with new students, um, the high school students, they were all enthusiastic and so get change and like they, first of all, Ukraine trying to get into UAA, um, European union. Yes. And therefore they are like enthusiastic and they like, Oh, we can do this, we can change, we can start like from this, this and this. So I think this project was the best bridge for them to show that they can stop and get closer to their dream to be a part of the, uh, European union, which is, I think that it creates progress, but doing this great.

Speaker 2:

I would actually, I would agree with that. I would say that while we were in Ukraine, the general atmosphere is one of change in one that was gonna come a lot of the, well actually just about everybody, we were talking to our high school students, so it's the next generation as opposed to the one that's currently in power and currently striving for change.